A Reform UK Senedd member has accused the health minister of lying during a debate on the health visitor pay dispute.
James Evans, who serves as shadow minister for health and prevention, accused cabinet minister for health, Mabon ap Gwynfor, of lying on Wednesday 16 September.
The interaction came within a debate on the health visitor pay dispute at Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board with Reform calling on the Welsh Government to take “immediate action” to bring resolution to the dispute.
Mr Evans closed the debate, responding in his capacity as shadow minister, and began by paying tribute to those who have gone out on strike.
However, at the end of Mr Evans’ contribution he hit out at the health minister, declaring that in his response he didn’t “say a great deal”.
The shadow minister said Mr ap Gwynfor “promised” health visitors that he would “make a change”.
He continued: “You promised, the Cabinet Ministers promised, and the First Minister himself promised.
“You have lied to these people, and if you want to renege on the promises you made, you will suffer from that at future elections.”
Mr Evans was then reprimanded by the Llywydd, Huw Irranca-Davies, who said: “You’ve just put on record a direct accusation that the Minister has lied. Could I just ask you to reflect on that in terms of parliamentary language within this place?”
The Reform shadow minister withdrew his comment but added: “I don’t think the people in the gallery will see it any differently.”
“Warm words”
The debate was opened by Reform’s Benjamin Hodge Mckenna, who drew attention to a letter signed by the First Minister during the election campaign in which he said failure to reach a fair settlement was “unacceptable”.
He told the Siambr that many health visitors who voted Plaid Cymru are now asking if they received false assurances during the election.
Mr Hodge Mckenna drew on a second letter, written by Unite the Union, in which they say: “Many of us voted and campaigned for Plaid, and placed trust in promises you made that a new approach would be taken to resolve this dispute.
“At best were you reckless with your promises or is the question “Has Plaid Lied?”
He added: “Now, that’s not my question. Those are the words of health visitors who are being let down by this Plaid Cymru Government.”
“Not doing the work”
Welsh Conservative, Andrew RT Davies also weighed in on the debate and reminded the health minister that when the issue of health visitors pay first arose in the Siambr he sat not on the government bench but in opposition.
He said: “Colleagues of yours who represented the Cwm Taf area ranted at the then Labour health minister for inaction and not doing anything to call this dispute to an end and put pressure on the health board.
“Five months later, you’re on the Government bench and you’re not doing the work that your leader signed up to during the election campaign.”
Similarly to Mr McKenna, the Welsh Conservative made reference to a letter signed by the First Minister in capacity as party leader supporting an end to the pay dispute.
Mr RT Davies continued: “I call on you, Minister, to live up to the pledge that you made at the election, I call on you to live up to the pledges that your Members made in this Chamber back in March, and bring this dispute to an end.”
“Dangerous precedent”
Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr MS, Vikki Howells warned the health minister about setting a “dangerous precedent for all NHS staff who come under ‘Agenda for Change from nurses to radiographers” by declaring that the government cannot intervene in the pay dispute.
She shared with the Siambr that her fellow Labour MS Sarah Murphy had recently written to the health minister and received a reply stating “that the Welsh Government does not have the powers to intervene” and “cannot become involved in the dispute itself.”
Ms Howells told the minister this was “not correct.”
The Labour MS exemplified that there is precedent for the Welsh Government to intervene in circumstances such as the dispute, providing the example of when Vaughan Gething stepped in in Betsi Cadwaladr to resolve a shift pattern issue for nurses there.
She added: “Your immediate predecessor, Jeremy Miles, made a very clear instruction to CTM that they need to honour that job evaluation process. And as they’ve not done so, Cabinet Minister, you must step up.”
“Inactive”
Responding, the health minister highlighted that the dispute “did not arise overnight”, adding that it “predates the current government” and “has been going on for several years.”
He said: “At the heart of the dispute is a disagreement between Unite and Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board regarding the evaluation of the roles of health visitors and the appropriate pay band arrangements.”
The minister declared that this does not mean, however, that his government has been “inactive”.
He shared that he has “engaged directly with both CTMUHB and Unite since coming into Government and have repeatedly called on all parties to come together, engage constructively and work towards a resolution as quickly as possible.”
Closing his response, Mr ap Gwynfor said: “Every single Member of this Senedd wants to see this dispute come to an end.
“We all want children and families to get the support that they need, and we want staff to feel that they are valued and supported.”
The motion was ultimately not agreed with 42 votes both for and against. Due to the equality of votes, the Llywydd was entitled to use his casting vote and the motion was rejected.